Curator Billy Tang talks with the Geocinema collective (Solveig Suess & Asia Bazdyrieva) about the sensory networks that represent the Earth on a planetary scale and their relationship with a geopolitical reconfiguration of the world in the face of the climate crisis around the international cooperation project Digital Belt and Road (DBAR).
Asia Bazdyrieva (AB): The initial concept of Geocinema was to consider planetary-scale networks of data accumulation as a vast cinematic apparatus, a camera. Here the notion of an image in relation to recording devices has already expanded and become embedded in geological formations as much as it has within sociopolitical configurations. We are directly borrowing from the idea of montage when we speak of earth’s representation as never being one holistic entity. Our interest and connection to cinema refer to the technique of mediating space and time, which creates a potent feedback system, and it creates a particular form of agency as it loops between our optical nerves and sensory experiences via moving images. In the twentieth century, with the huge development in optical devices, moving images can be instrumentalized as objectifying tools as well as being emancipatory. It is because of this that we are keen to tackle the underlying biases existing in optical regimes and to begin thinking about alternatives to them. So far, we have organized our work around “episodes”, which explore various aspects of imaging and cinematic perception.
BT: Are there any methods or tools you regularly rely on? This might be related to how you might undertake fieldwork or, in a general sense, related to a wider strategy that allows you to work across different scales, but also the geographies that you mention.
How to represent complex systems and mechanisms, which are not immediately perceivable by themselves?
AB: Framing Territories is one part of a series of episodes of Geocinema and it explores the relationship between Earth-imaging and terraformation. We were interested in how optical regimes of looking at the earth feed into practices of material extraction that eventually turn into larger phenomena such as global warming. We then knew about the Digital Belt and Road (DBAR) project, which is the digital counterpart to the One Belt One Road initiative. Although established by the Chinese government, it also hybrid and internationalized. The DBAR project aims to design an international platform to aggregate earth observation data in order to prevent risks related to climate change. So, actually, it is about having more information about the earth in order to help extract or develop from it, while also alerting and raising awareness of any potential risks involved in this process, thereby enabling organizations to make preemptive decisions in response. Therefore, it is a strange situation, where something made to prevent climate change is actually also the cause of it in the first place. We were fascinated with how notions of global conservation could simultaneously emerge alongside processes related to its exploitation.
SS: One of the initial key places we traveled to after the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing was the 3rd Digital Belt and Road Conference in Tengchong. Before we went there, we had sent requests to the Chinese Academy of Science, which included our interest in accessing one of their satellite ground-stations to film, including Miyun near Beijing. We requested to attend the conference as filmmakers working on the topic of the climate crisis and its representation. For both locations, we had our requests denied, but nevertheless, we still tried to show up to them. The conference had an impressive entrance fee, but through the help of a friend, Asia managed to purchase a ticket and attend the conference.
SS: As soon as we enter the Chinese Academy of Sciences in the film, we get introduced to Professor Li, the head of the Big Data working group within the DBAR program. He was diplomatic and generous with how much he shared with us in terms of the rhetoric of DBAR and why it is important for them. One of the things that stuck with us throughout was when he described the basics of a satellite image. A picture contains thousands of pixels, but there is obviously no inherent meaning in a pixel. In his words, when data is translated into information, information can be seen as an object, an object that is defined by a series of material relations. Data is not water, but water is defined through characteristics such as its age, its clearance, its reflections. The same goes for forests, whether natural or manmade. Here, the algorithm is not limited to the actual code, which precedes the satellite image, but continues in the way that the institution then mobilizes and turns this knowledge into policies. This has implications related to the realm of resource extraction, largescale infrastructure plans, and ecological management such as the Three-North Shelter Forest Program, or more commonly known as the Great Green Wall. So, the film moves through spaces that shape the emerging architectures of earth-imaging and glides across the massive infrastructural projects of the Belt and Road. There are moments that remind the viewer of the constant recording that is happening across different environments throughout the entire film. But we also wanted to show that these operations do much more than simply render visible different versions of the Earth.
AB: Surveillance is often associated with ideas of direct control or militaristic notions of visibility connected to the relationship of boundaries and power. However, the ever-expanding data economy brings forth new forms of surveillance and governance, which are extremely hard to locate, because they are no longer centered on “traditional” power hierarchies. In the film, Alexandre Caldas, a UN Environment representative, and keynote speaker at the DBAR conference notes that the value of any country is its territory, yet we no longer need to physically invade a territory in order to extract its resources. Warfare is now operated through investment and data, but we also begin to explore the connection of these issues through infrastructure.
BT: Related to Alexandre Caldas, he describes some future scenarios connected to infrastructure projects such as the DBAR. Could you talk more about the implications behind the projections hypothesized by these speculative scenarios in relation to China?
We cannot use the word territory anymore, because this includes data, which is invisible and is not territorial.
AB: There are emerging mechanisms to exploit this abundance. For example, there is a team in the Chinese Academy of Sciences that works on algorithms that process natural languages sourced from social media within China. When certain words become used more often, this triggers a response mechanism. So, when a flood is happening, people talk and will post about it much earlier and more broadly, compared to the information released by any state agency. The development of such techniques becomes justified as a protection against the devastating powers of a natural disaster. The government wants to know more for your safety. Yet there is a dangerous twist we also have observed through the seemingly noble logic of care and protection related to the current pandemic response.
The alienation of a natural disaster or virus is used to justify new forms of surveillance that aid preemptive forms of policing.
BT: There is a director you speak to in Thailand, who seems to embody this romantic idealization of how information and data can be utilized. She speaks about the difficulties in terms of finding meaningful ways to utilize and standardize the capture of data in the region.
BT: You mentioned the concept of Digital Earths in an essay for e-flux. How does this concept relate to the role of subjectivity in your practice? In other words, in the films, do you look to maintain a neutral voice throughout and how do you position yourself in relationship to the contentious issues you find?
SS: The works we produce are far from neutral. But I don’t think we’d ever want to be hegemonic in dictating the viewer’s experience. We would rather like to lay down a few coordinates for the viewer to experience and question this topic on their own terms.
–
This interview was originally published in English in LEAP magazine F/W 2020.
Curator Billy Tang talks with the Geocinema collective (Solveig Suess & Asia Bazdyrieva) about the sensory networks that represent the Earth on a planetary scale and their relationship with a geopolitical reconfiguration of the world in the face of the climate crisis around the international cooperation project Digital Belt and Road (DBAR).
Asia Bazdyrieva (AB): The initial concept of Geocinema was to consider planetary-scale networks of data accumulation as a vast cinematic apparatus, a camera. Here the notion of an image in relation to recording devices has already expanded and become embedded in geological formations as much as it has within sociopolitical configurations. We are directly borrowing from the idea of montage when we speak of earth’s representation as never being one holistic entity. Our interest and connection to cinema refer to the technique of mediating space and time, which creates a potent feedback system, and it creates a particular form of agency as it loops between our optical nerves and sensory experiences via moving images. In the twentieth century, with the huge development in optical devices, moving images can be instrumentalized as objectifying tools as well as being emancipatory. It is because of this that we are keen to tackle the underlying biases existing in optical regimes and to begin thinking about alternatives to them. So far, we have organized our work around “episodes”, which explore various aspects of imaging and cinematic perception.
BT: Are there any methods or tools you regularly rely on? This might be related to how you might undertake fieldwork or, in a general sense, related to a wider strategy that allows you to work across different scales, but also the geographies that you mention.
How to represent complex systems and mechanisms, which are not immediately perceivable by themselves?
AB: Framing Territories is one part of a series of episodes of Geocinema and it explores the relationship between Earth-imaging and terraformation. We were interested in how optical regimes of looking at the earth feed into practices of material extraction that eventually turn into larger phenomena such as global warming. We then knew about the Digital Belt and Road (DBAR) project, which is the digital counterpart to the One Belt One Road initiative. Although established by the Chinese government, it also hybrid and internationalized. The DBAR project aims to design an international platform to aggregate earth observation data in order to prevent risks related to climate change. So, actually, it is about having more information about the earth in order to help extract or develop from it, while also alerting and raising awareness of any potential risks involved in this process, thereby enabling organizations to make preemptive decisions in response. Therefore, it is a strange situation, where something made to prevent climate change is actually also the cause of it in the first place. We were fascinated with how notions of global conservation could simultaneously emerge alongside processes related to its exploitation.
SS: One of the initial key places we traveled to after the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing was the 3rd Digital Belt and Road Conference in Tengchong. Before we went there, we had sent requests to the Chinese Academy of Science, which included our interest in accessing one of their satellite ground-stations to film, including Miyun near Beijing. We requested to attend the conference as filmmakers working on the topic of the climate crisis and its representation. For both locations, we had our requests denied, but nevertheless, we still tried to show up to them. The conference had an impressive entrance fee, but through the help of a friend, Asia managed to purchase a ticket and attend the conference.
SS: As soon as we enter the Chinese Academy of Sciences in the film, we get introduced to Professor Li, the head of the Big Data working group within the DBAR program. He was diplomatic and generous with how much he shared with us in terms of the rhetoric of DBAR and why it is important for them. One of the things that stuck with us throughout was when he described the basics of a satellite image. A picture contains thousands of pixels, but there is obviously no inherent meaning in a pixel. In his words, when data is translated into information, information can be seen as an object, an object that is defined by a series of material relations. Data is not water, but water is defined through characteristics such as its age, its clearance, its reflections. The same goes for forests, whether natural or manmade. Here, the algorithm is not limited to the actual code, which precedes the satellite image, but continues in the way that the institution then mobilizes and turns this knowledge into policies. This has implications related to the realm of resource extraction, largescale infrastructure plans, and ecological management such as the Three-North Shelter Forest Program, or more commonly known as the Great Green Wall. So, the film moves through spaces that shape the emerging architectures of earth-imaging and glides across the massive infrastructural projects of the Belt and Road. There are moments that remind the viewer of the constant recording that is happening across different environments throughout the entire film. But we also wanted to show that these operations do much more than simply render visible different versions of the Earth.
AB: Surveillance is often associated with ideas of direct control or militaristic notions of visibility connected to the relationship of boundaries and power. However, the ever-expanding data economy brings forth new forms of surveillance and governance, which are extremely hard to locate, because they are no longer centered on “traditional” power hierarchies. In the film, Alexandre Caldas, a UN Environment representative, and keynote speaker at the DBAR conference notes that the value of any country is its territory, yet we no longer need to physically invade a territory in order to extract its resources. Warfare is now operated through investment and data, but we also begin to explore the connection of these issues through infrastructure.
BT: Related to Alexandre Caldas, he describes some future scenarios connected to infrastructure projects such as the DBAR. Could you talk more about the implications behind the projections hypothesized by these speculative scenarios in relation to China?
We cannot use the word territory anymore, because this includes data, which is invisible and is not territorial.
AB: There are emerging mechanisms to exploit this abundance. For example, there is a team in the Chinese Academy of Sciences that works on algorithms that process natural languages sourced from social media within China. When certain words become used more often, this triggers a response mechanism. So, when a flood is happening, people talk and will post about it much earlier and more broadly, compared to the information released by any state agency. The development of such techniques becomes justified as a protection against the devastating powers of a natural disaster. The government wants to know more for your safety. Yet there is a dangerous twist we also have observed through the seemingly noble logic of care and protection related to the current pandemic response.
The alienation of a natural disaster or virus is used to justify new forms of surveillance that aid preemptive forms of policing.
BT: There is a director you speak to in Thailand, who seems to embody this romantic idealization of how information and data can be utilized. She speaks about the difficulties in terms of finding meaningful ways to utilize and standardize the capture of data in the region.
BT: You mentioned the concept of Digital Earths in an essay for e-flux. How does this concept relate to the role of subjectivity in your practice? In other words, in the films, do you look to maintain a neutral voice throughout and how do you position yourself in relationship to the contentious issues you find?
SS: The works we produce are far from neutral. But I don’t think we’d ever want to be hegemonic in dictating the viewer’s experience. We would rather like to lay down a few coordinates for the viewer to experience and question this topic on their own terms.
–
This interview was originally published in English in LEAP magazine F/W 2020.